tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15859003249144847202024-02-19T17:26:14.461-08:00Midlands Discussion ForumMidlands Discussion Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16331944341618173169noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585900324914484720.post-31155013290518273102018-03-08T10:42:00.001-08:002018-03-08T10:42:39.621-08:00Midlands Discussion Forum meeting, Birmingham 17/3/18<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhjXsQqlwE91bPa3QiLMJT3pP5ITfwoSwEXZTCykqYOog0XSdT0K1TJNjiE9Kxik7JEOEtiMfyOhvLJv9tZgywyg8LQ1Rfnnme2meAPmGUeD4z2je4PnROahln35Vs6PwFQfjoXQK16IZ7M/s1600/Trafalgar_Square_cuts_protest.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1203" data-original-width="1600" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhjXsQqlwE91bPa3QiLMJT3pP5ITfwoSwEXZTCykqYOog0XSdT0K1TJNjiE9Kxik7JEOEtiMfyOhvLJv9tZgywyg8LQ1Rfnnme2meAPmGUeD4z2je4PnROahln35Vs6PwFQfjoXQK16IZ7M/s320/Trafalgar_Square_cuts_protest.jpg" width="320" /></a><strong>Reforms, Reformism and the Welfare State</strong><br />The subject is reforms and reformism in the context of the recent years of UK austerity and public sector cutbacks and the rolling back of the 'welfare state' - with particular reference to how we relate to left and union lead campaigns in response to this (for instance with the NHS). <strong>Saturday 17th March</strong> at <strong>2pm</strong> at the <strong>Woodman Pub back room, New Canal Street, Birmingham B5 54G</strong> (next to the parkway at the Curzon Stret end) and 15 mins walk from New Street or Moor Street railway stations. All Welcome. Following documents may be useful: <a href="https://libcom.org/files/AWW_Health.pdf">HERE</a> and <a href="https://libcom.org/blog/ten-years-financial-crash-what-price-education-29092017">HERE</a>.Midlands Discussion Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16331944341618173169noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585900324914484720.post-19778948190628291542018-02-16T06:41:00.000-08:002018-02-16T06:52:06.983-08:00UBIhttps://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/£10000-for-everyone-under-55-think-tank-calls-for-uk-universal-basic-income-fund/ar-BBJcUqT?li=AAmiR2Z&ocid=spartandhp<br />
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Perhaps there is some irony in the fact that whilst the MDF debates the need for a transition to socialism, free distribution to meet need etc, capitalism is contemplating free distribution to meet need...<br />
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BUT no one will work!<br />
Yes, but we will abolish work and introduce labour....or is it abolish labour and introduce work...<br />
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<br />Stevein7http://www.blogger.com/profile/05247112348960054367noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585900324914484720.post-85158094081777618182018-02-06T08:27:00.001-08:002018-02-06T08:34:09.000-08:00Women in Class Struggle<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">Women
in class struggle<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<o:p><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I thought </span><span style="font-size: 14.666666984558105px;">I</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> would post my presentation from a recent meeting on feminism and class struggle that was partly a response to Theft's rantings (seems like the only way to describe it really) but is also relevant to some extent to the discussion we had on the issues in the AF</span></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">Intro<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">In
Britain, we have had 50 years of the equal pay and equal opps type legislation,
many years of politicial correctness,2 female prime ministers, queen, womens
can play<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>football and rugby and
accepted in pubs on their own. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">Feminist
arguments have had a major influence on current thinking and especially
political correctness policies of recent years.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">Do
such examples mean capitalism has given women freedom and equality? Of course
not,<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Women remain exploited
as workers and subjugated as women in a fundamentally paternalistic
society.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">This
discussion will attempt to place the situation of women in a class society. It
is likely to discuss the social trends of recent years in that context.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Discussion is likely to incorporate
issues such as the participation of women in the class struggle of the past,
how to view domestic labour, feminism in a class society , how the roles of men
and women have come about, what a society of equality could look like, and how
to fight for an equal society in future. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">points
should be onto issues<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">On
the other hand women remain focal victims of rape,<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>mysogenistic<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>attitudes
stalking, postings on social media, stalkers, unequal pay and discrimination by
some employers due to their capacity to bear children,<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>susceptibility to be drawn into law
pay, high pressure jobs as well as being seen by many as still the homekeeper.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">How
can we make sense of this contradiction?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>It is important to start by seeing the role of women in society as a
class issue.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>This may stlll leave
us with difficulties in foreseeing what an equal society would look like and
how it would leave relationships between males and females, but it does enable
a vision of how soc called female liberation is affecting todays society and
how to fight for an equal society in the future<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">It
is sad to say that like all<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>mainstream history , womens history is written by ruling class men for
ruling class men but by looking at the history of the working class it is
possible to see how women have been exploited and subjugated by capitalism and
how they have contributed to the working classes resistance as a whole to
capitalism <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">Presentation<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">Is
the issue of women’s oppression separate to class society and the struggle
between classes?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>No it is not, but
just because there is a patriarchal continuity in class societies does not mean
that the role of women, indeed of both mean and women, has not changed with
these class societies.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>We live
under a capitalism system and these roles of men and women are changed and
determined by capitalist relations.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Just because we have a continuity and still use building built or designed
in feudal times doesn’t mean that the people in them are defined by feudal
relations.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I cant do the whole history of sexual
relations however so under capitalism in my simplistic view ,<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>the role of women is defined by ruling
class ideas of domestic life.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The
family takes a particular form in the bourgeois ruling class.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The ruling class household becomes an
individual family home and yes the male is the breadwinner, the boss, he goes
out and earns money by employing others.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>The woman stays at home as a wife and produces children, the bloodline -
but the role is much more than that, she is the management of the
household.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Her status in
terms of the male female relationship is low agreed but personally and
socially, her status it is high.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Money
standing in the community, roles in the community<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">Unfortunately
that lesser status in the ruling class family translates into the rest of
society and a significant burden on working class women.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The property relations of that
family, the sexual role, the housebound role, that subservience to the male,
that protection of the bloodline become a series of oppressive social controls
which are compounded by the like hood of having to work as well to support the
family because the low income of the male is insufficient.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Something that today has become worse
where 2 incomes have become almost essential to a reasonable living standard.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">Main
point here then is that ruling ideology creates an a oppressive and limiting
environment for women socially (perhaps even common ground) but that the class
context leads to a distinct and opposing set of interests for women of
different classes<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">I struggled
with how to approach this topic it’s so broad and so many issues, I CANT DO IT
ALL.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>As is ay that was my
simplistic historical bit, now for a simplistic bit about class struggle.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>If its true that the history of society
has been written by ruling class men for the benefit of ruling class men, it is
also sad to not e that when we talk about workers and class struggle its all
too easy to picture men swinging hammers and so forth.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Working class women are not part of a
separate group to working class men, they are all the workers.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>In the 19th century men went out to
work women worked at home as well as looked after the family</span><span style="color: red; font-family: "font000000001e900470"; font-size: 11.0pt;"> <span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: "font000000001e900470"; font-size: 11.0pt;">OK there is a division of labour with women more
connected to household duties and lighter work.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>There is also a segregation of type of employments some seen
as more suitable to men some to women. But even that is not absolute e.g. this description
of Black Country cottage industry:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="color: red; font-family: "font000000001e900470"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Women that worked at home in shops behind or
near to their houses had to divide their time between getting their families
off to school and work, cooking, washing, baking bread, brewing home made beer
and making chain. Some of them would be tapping away making small chain links
until 9 or 10 o’clock at night.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="color: red; font-family: "font000000001e9005d3"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Many women made chain, a great number at
home in backyard chainshops usually at the back of their houses, quite often
just across the yard or ‘fade’. Some were situated at the top of their gardens
and some were built in groups on spare ground near the houses (as in Plant
Street, Old Hill). Sometimes a dozen or so women would work together in larger
chainshops owned by a chainmaster or chain dealer. Women generally made the
lighter gauge chain as used in harness work.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">Again
it’s all too easy to translate this view we have been given of women’s role to
the perceptions of the class struggle.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Is it only men that strike and go on demonstrations and confront the state?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It what we see in our mind when we
think of these terms but NO it is clearly not the case.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>There may well be a division of labour
in strikes eg the miners on strike in the UK were significantly supported by active
miners wives groups – but I would argue that this is a product of a culture
imposed by capitalism not<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>of
inherent wc behaviour.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">I
think its actually a sad reflection of how we now separate issues of women and
class struggle in that we can pick examples such as the chain makers above.
Other similar strikes stand out like grunwicks and hailwood.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>So ill repeat women are not separate
but an intrinsic part of the struggle. One of the more famous strikes from the
black country were those female chainmakers who struck in 1911 for higher wages
in fact TUC/lp hold a festival each year commemorating<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">I
have had to focus things for this presentation and I have chosen to start with some
reflection on the Russian revolution again well it is 2017 and hence the women
in class struggle and relate to issues today<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">First point to note is that
the spark for the whole revolution was the international women’s day march. And
i am going for a lot of <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>cudos
here, even brownie points, with an extended quote from a youngster writing
under the name jock<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><span lang="EN-US" style="color: red; font-family: "verdana"; font-size: 11.0pt;">February 23 1917.</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="color: red; font-family: "verdana"; font-size: 11.0pt;"> A century ago,
on International Women’s Day (February 23 old style/ March 8 today), women
workers of both home and factory took to the streets of Petrograd. Five days of
strikes, demonstrations and over 1300 deaths later, the Tsarist edifice had
crumbled. In these events, hundreds of thousands of men also took part but,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="color: red; font-family: "verdana"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“<i>It was the
women who initiated the action in most cases, primarily working women from the
textile mills</i>.”[2]<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="color: red; font-family: "verdana"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The final straw
for the women workers had come with the breakdown in the supply of bread which
began at the start of February when only half the food ordered for Petrograd
arrived.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="color: red; font-family: "verdana"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“<i>Long lines
stretched in front of shops and bakeries. A winter unprecedented in severity
had set in, filling the streets with ice and piling snowdrifts on the roofs of
homes, sidewalks and bridges of the city. Shivering from cold, poorly dressed
young people, women and old men waited hours for bread and often went home
empty-handed. Food shortages provoked an even greater ferment among the masses.
In line they discussed why there was no bread and why prices were still rising;
they wondered who was responsible for the people’s misery and who needed the
war. The Petrograd Okhrana observed that on days of severe crisis the queues
had the same force as revolutionary meetings and tens of thousands of
revolutionary leaflets. The street had become a political club</i>.”[3]<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="color: green; font-family: "verdana"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The war made these conditions particularly exacting for women. Many were
left having to work long hours in war industries after their men were conscripted
for the front, as well as look after children, and spend what little free time
they had in long lines queuing for bread and kerosene. Bread became the issue
which sparked off uncontrollable rage. In the days before International Women’s
Day bakeries had been sacked and bread shops stoned but what now transformed
these bread riots into something more was that women (plus some male) workers
held “stormy” mass meetings and decided to celebrate the day by going on strike
and not just demonstrating. Having decided to down tools in one factory they
then went round others, sometimes throwing snowballs at windows to attract
other workers’ attention. Men and women poured out of factories to take part in
demonstrations. All told that day somewhere between 80,000 and 120,000 workers,
the vast majority of them women, went out on strike demanding bread, peace and,
more ominously for the regime, an end to Tsarism.[4]<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: "verdana"; font-size: 11.0pt;">My
point of looking at that detail is that it demonstrate precisely my argument
that workers struggle as a united class whatever gender, race sexuality etc.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="color: red; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 14.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">The new workers’
state established by the revolution of October 1917, and led by the Bolsheviks,
quickly moved to declare a new approach to the issues of women’s rights and
sexuality. The December proclamation of the new state’s program struck out the
laws which criminalised homosexual acts; it abolished the concept of
illegitimacy, made marriage and divorce a secular matter which required simply
consent. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: 14.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">These social changes seen
as an integral part of a social revolution taking place but for </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: "helvetica"; font-size: 13.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-font-family: Helvetica;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Lenin the laws were not enough however: <span style="color: red;">and we are by no means content with mere decrees. In the
sphere of legislation, however, we have done everything required of us to put
women in a position of equality and we have every right to be proud of it. The
position of women in Soviet Russia is now ideal as compared with their position
in the most advanced states. We tell ourselves, however, that this, of course,
is only the beginning</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: 14.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="color: #262626; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 14.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">Kollontai and
Lenin for example had a great deal of common understanding of what they hoped
to build after 1917: childcare centres, new housing which allowed mor</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color: #262626; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 14.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">e communal
living, community kitchens, the socialisation of housework, laundry and
cooking. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Its</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color: #262626; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 14.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"> int</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color: #262626; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 14.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">eresting
t</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color: #262626; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 14.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">hat the Stalin era reversed most of this Bolsheviks legislation but that
emphasis on women in work with a corresponding provision of child care
facilities remained until the wall came down<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: "helvetica"; font-size: 13.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-font-family: Helvetica;">Trotsky suggested<span style="color: red;"> To institute the political equality of men and women in the
Soviet state was one problem and the simplest . . . But to achieve the actual
equality of man and woman within the family is an infinitely more arduous
problem.” He concluded, “All our domestic habits must be revolutionized before
that can happen. And yet it is quite obvious that unless there is actual equality
of husband and wife in the family, in a normal sense as well as in the
conditions of life, we cannot speak seriously of their equality in social work
or even in politics.”</span></span><sup><span lang="EN-US" style="color: red; font-family: "helvetica"; font-size: 10.5pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-font-family: Helvetica;">35</span></sup><span style="color: red;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="color: #262626; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 14.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">In summary the
achievement of workers’ rule is the preconditions for the goals set for women’s
rights but it is the threshold for the really significant battle to change behaviour<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="color: red; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 14.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">Socialism is not
a utopia which can be wished or willed into existence. The conditions for
liberation have to be created by workers transforming the economic and social
foundations of society which give rise to oppression. Once they are destroyed
and a new way of organising society – collectively and democratically, for
human needs rather than for profit – has been established, then the ideas of
the revolutionaries themselves are of secondary importance. The logic of the
end of exploitation is towards human freedom in all aspects of human experience</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color: #262626; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 14.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">.</span></div>
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Communism we say is to be created by a conscious working
class. This is consciousness of struggle and cooperation and of a goal to
achieve.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>This does not mean
however that wc can be conscious beforehand of every change that has to be made
to improve people’s behaviour.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>That is impossibility.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It’s
the fact of cooperation to eliminate class exploitation that will draw people
together in a way that eliminates alienation and creates equality.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Most of the implications of that
activity we cant foresee now and we can’t predict.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
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This for me is what Marx meant when he said theory becomes a practical act. </div>
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<b><span lang="EN-US" style="color: #1a1a1a; font-family: "helvetica"; font-size: 14.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-font-family: Helvetica;">The
philosophers have only <i>interpreted</i> the world, in various ways. The
point, however, is to <i>change</i> it.</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 16.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-font-family: Georgia;"> <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 16.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-font-family: Georgia;">The coincidence of the
changing of circumstances and of human activity or self-changing can be
conceived and rationally understood only as <i>revolutionary practice</i>.</span></div>
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So at this point I would say whilst it is true that history
is written by men for men, it not actually a true representation of
reality.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The point is to change
society.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Just as on all social issues,
Capitalism,<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>because of its nature,
can pose the problems but it cannot solve them.</div>
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Back to today</div>
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Women struggles are part of the class struggle and we don’t
identify a separate struggle.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
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But that is precisely what bourgeois feminist movement does
from the suffragettes and their votes for women to today’s calls for wages for
housework or whatever.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Bourgeois
feminism is based on women as individuals and fights for individual’s rights in
existing society not in conjunction with workers struggles for independence. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>There is no basis for gender
solidarity precisely because the experiences of wc women wc women, African
women, European Chinese America black white generate cultural differences which
inhibit solidarity.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>There is no
common social experience that lead to a coherent social unity and it is then the
individual’s experiences then lead to differing conceptions of both the
oppressions and the opportunities for freedom.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>This is the aspect that Dauve ignores in the article that
Mike recommended.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>He makes
interesting reading but in the end is just asserting that women’s liberation
has to be fought for at the same time as wc liberation with out identifying how
this has or can happen</div>
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Once we agree that women are subjugated, the next problem is
that we can look a the lives of black people, Asian, Chinese, gay, fat people
immigrants, workers, unemployed disabled, factory workers, white collar workers
and pretty soon we reach the conclusion that everybody is oppressed and
subjugation by today’s system So what can be done about the fact we are all
fucked, can we set a priority of importance of the different struggles? Course
not.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>We can feel sympathy and
empathy because or our experiences of this oppressive society. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But people in general <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>can’t even agree on precisely what is
wrong and what needs to be corrected because all of the issues related to
identity politics are by their very nature open to individual
interpretations.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>There is no group
identity that draws them together and towards a common solution for behaviour
whether within capitalism or not.</div>
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What we are left with when we investigate social oppression
is a whole mess of contradictions.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Not so long ago women abjeted to wearing bras.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>This is now seen as a bit of a joke but it was a serious
step against male repressiveness.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Again Miss and Mrs were once seen as sexist tags but nowadays feminism
seems quite happy to own these female roles..<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Black women believe more liberated than white women
but black men are mysogenistic and backward yet will be happy to join in with gangsta
rap cos it supposedly is a voice against mainstream racism. I find it amazing that
white european culture still somehow believes that minority culture must be
left wing or liberal or revolutionary.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Both White and black women voted for Trump<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>precisely because he is right wing nationalist, theres no
mystery as to why.</div>
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I just do not know what Theft is specifically arguing for,
he doesn’t explain anything.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But I
do agree that rape is a product of the general situation of male power and
domination over females with capitalism. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I object to that reality but I also object to Theft absurd
argument that males are consequently rape apologists if they do not say exactly
the right words all the time.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Further in this society Sexuality and sexism are far too easily confused.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>What one women wants is anathema to
another let alone men.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Men are
prone to violent outbursts, women are prone to emotional outbursts <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>and feminists argue that men should only
respond by genuinely ie not superficial and not to get a hand in her
pants,<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>fitting in with the
women.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Now I quite agree
that this is a reasonable and appropriate approach to relationships within
capitalism, this is always purely personal and an individual response and not a
solution to creating mass action to getting rid of capitalism.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I again argue <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>that that only the actual process of
building a communist society can extricate them..<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>to make things more complicated for theft, we can look
at the campaigns run by the<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>UN and
various other agencies against rape as a weapon of war, but fighting a clean
war is<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>maybe a laudable aim that
the wc should take up but it is clearly today a bourgeois campaign </div>
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Linkhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10866104425122886737noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585900324914484720.post-55468351390786450872018-02-06T02:21:00.000-08:002018-02-06T02:21:20.063-08:00The path to a classless, stateless human futureA number of MDF participants have started a discourse on the mailing list about this question. Both Bookmark and Steve S have expressed views. Perhaps this blog could be a good place to allow them and others to outline their positions.Keith I Taylorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01201034837797464467noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585900324914484720.post-51795856693172346322018-02-01T04:43:00.000-08:002018-02-01T04:44:40.460-08:00Hi tech slavery<br />
<br />
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/companies/amazon-patents-wristband-that-tracks-warehouse-workers-movements/ar-BBIxzj2?li=AAmiR2Z&ocid=spartanntp<br />
<div style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; color: #333333; font-family: &quot; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; margin-bottom: 19px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; orphans: 2; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
<br /></div>
<div style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; color: #333333; font-family: &quot; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; margin-bottom: 19px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; orphans: 2; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
Amazon has patented designs for a wristband that can precisely track where warehouse employees are placing their hands and use vibrations to nudge them in a different direction.</div>
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The concept, which aims to streamline the fulfilment of orders, adds another layer of surveillance to an already challenging working environment. </div>
<div style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; color: #333333; font-family: &quot; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; margin-bottom: 19px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; orphans: 2; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
When someone orders a product from Amazon, the details are transmitted to the handheld computers that all warehouse staff carry. Upon receiving the order details, the worker must rush to retrieve the product from one of many inventory bins on shelves, pack it into a delivery box and move on to the next assignment. </div>
<div style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; color: #333333; font-family: &quot; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; margin-bottom: 19px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; orphans: 2; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
The proposed wristbands would use ultrasonic tracking to identify the precise location of a worker’s hands as they retrieve items. One of the patents outlines a haptic feedback system that would vibrate against the wearer’s skin to point their hand in the right direction. </div>
<div style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; color: #333333; font-family: &quot; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; margin-bottom: 19px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; orphans: 2; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
The result? Human workers can fulfil more orders – until robots develop the dexterity to replace them altogether.</div>
<span style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; color: #333333; font-family: &quot; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; orphans: 2; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">The proposed wristbands would use ultrasonic tracking to identify the precise location of a worker’s hands as they retrieve items.</span><span style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; color: #333333; font-family: &quot; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; orphans: 2; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">Photograph: Amazon / USPTO</span><br />
<div style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; color: #333333; font-family: &quot; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; margin-bottom: 19px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; orphans: 2; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
The wristbands are, according to the patent documents, first spotted by GeekWire, designed as a labour-saving measure to keep track of products throughout the warehouse. </div>
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A less generous interpretation would be that the wristbands provide Amazon management with new workplace surveillance capabilities that can identify the workers wasting time scratching, fidgeting or dilly-dallying.</div>
<b></b><i></i><u></u><sub></sub><sup></sup><strike></strike><br />
<div style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; color: #333333; font-family: &quot; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; margin-bottom: 19px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; orphans: 2; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
"Amazon already has a reputation for turning low-paid staff into “human robots” – working alongside thousands of proper robots – carrying out repetitive packaging tasks as fast as possible in an attempt to hit goals set by handheld computers.</div>
<div style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; color: #333333; font-family: &quot; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; margin-bottom: 19px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; orphans: 2; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
This month, the 24-year-old warehouse worker Aaron Callaway described having just 15 seconds to scan items and place them into the right cart in during his night shifts at an Amazon warehouse in the UK. “My main interaction is with the robots,” he said."</div>
<b></b><i></i><u></u><sub></sub><sup></sup><strike></strike><br />Stevein7http://www.blogger.com/profile/05247112348960054367noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585900324914484720.post-36442787188744036342018-01-29T02:50:00.000-08:002018-02-06T02:36:31.302-08:00Aftermath of bitcoin discussion<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Hi</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ok, I like this idea, hope to contribute anything that comes to mind, may be useful. </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">At the last meeting in Sheff, a few ideas of great interest were briefly aired and I would like to elaborate.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Capitalism as a revolutionary force.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">The lack of a revolutionary response to the 2008 crash.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">The coming crash.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Obviously talking about capitalism as an agent of revolution is not the same as it was during its early inception. The capitalist revolution is done, any small outposts of stone age culture and the like make little difference. </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Nor am I saying that revolution was not possible previously (though that may have been the case, I am unsure as there is any way to prove that point, 1917 could have escalated, 1968 could have escalated 1984 could have escalated...).</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">What I am saying is that there is a feature of the capitalist process that again and again sharply poses the question of an alternative, a non capitalist society. This is not necessarily only posed by crisis, not only posed by misery, but also by all manner of sharp turns that provoke consideration of the system itself. For some, cryptocurrency could have kicked off a critique going beyond the limited critique which bitcoin enthusiasts are popularising.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Also, capitalist development generally facilitates the setting up of a socialist society. Its technological advance does not stop producing veritable leaps, for example the internet, massive computational power, energy sources, agricultural technique and the like, however grotesque the application for profit chasing.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">This is not to deny the repressive, suppressive ideological control which also advances along with the technological means to do so, and nobody is saying capitalism will simply transform into socialism in a seamless flurry of modernisation. </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">As previously stated, there is no rule stating only crisis and misery provides the condition for generalised revolutionary consciousness, but equally there is no rule to say it does not. The previous revolutionary wave of 1917 occurred in dire circumstance, the 1930s events were also against a background of extreme economic dysfunction, but the causation of the 1968 wave is not so easily described.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">But capitalism is constantly breaking the mould and ejecting people from comfortable routines. It is dynamic, precarious, frightening and unstable. </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">This dynamic is not the sole element in provoking revolutionary responses, but it remains an element. It is in this sense that I think capitalism plays a revolutionary role.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">And one that could be very dramatically illustrated very soon.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">In the latest RP (CWO publication) we are informed that a stock market crash today would wipe off trillions and catalyse a deep depression. The working class could very well respond robustly. It would seem highly likely in fact, given the current rise in poverty and lack of leeway. That scenario is no fantasy.</span><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br />"...it is only a matter of time before stocks notice the same things that are spooking bonds, and credit in general, and get reacquainted with gravity.<br />What happens next? Well, if the Citi correlation extrapolation is accurate, and historically it has been, it would imply that by mid-2019, equities are facing a nearly 50% drop to keep up with central bank asset shrinkage. "</span><br />
<div style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: transparent; border-bottom-color: rgb(61, 61, 61); border-bottom-style: none; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-image-outset: 0; border-image-repeat: stretch; border-image-slice: 100%; border-image-source: none; border-image-width: 1; border-left-color: rgb(61, 61, 61); border-left-style: none; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-color: rgb(61, 61, 61); border-right-style: none; border-right-width: 0px; border-top-color: rgb(61, 61, 61); border-top-style: none; border-top-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; color: #3d3d3d; font-family: &quot; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 13px; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 16.9px; margin-bottom: 9.75px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 3.25px; orphans: 2; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-28/bonds-finally-noticed-what-going-stocks-are-next</span></div>
<div style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: transparent; border-bottom-color: rgb(61, 61, 61); border-bottom-style: none; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-image-outset: 0; border-image-repeat: stretch; border-image-slice: 100%; border-image-source: none; border-image-width: 1; border-left-color: rgb(61, 61, 61); border-left-style: none; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-color: rgb(61, 61, 61); border-right-style: none; border-right-width: 0px; border-top-color: rgb(61, 61, 61); border-top-style: none; border-top-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; color: #3d3d3d; font-family: &quot; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 13px; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 16.9px; margin-bottom: 9.75px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 3.25px; orphans: 2; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"></span><br /></div>
<div style="line-height: normal; margin: 0px; text-align: justify; text-justify: inter-ideograph;">
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><span style="color: #3d3d3d; font-size: 12pt; margin: 0px;">The leverage in the economic system has
become so extreme; investors have no idea of the disaster that is going to take
place during the next stock market crash. The collapse of the U.S. Housing and
Investment Banking Industry in 2008 and ensuing economic turmoil was a mere
WARM-UP for STAGE 2 of the continued disintegration of the global financial and
economic system.</span><br style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px;" />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: black;"><br style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px;" />
<span style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; margin: 0px; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px;">While the U.S. and the global economy have seemingly
continued business as usual since the Fed and Central Banks stepped in and
propped up the collapsing markets in 2008, this was only a one-time GET OUT OF
JAIL free card that can't be used again. What the Fed and Central Banks did to
keep the system from falling off the cliff in 2008 was quite similar to a scene
in a science fiction movie where the commander of the spaceship uses the last
bit of rocket-fuel propulsion in just the nick of time to get them back to
earth on the correct orbit.</span><br style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px;" />
<br style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px;" />
<span style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; margin: 0px; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px;">Thus, the only way forward, according to the
Central banks, was to increase the amount of money printing, leverage, asset
values, and debt. While this policy can work for a while, it doesn't last
forever. And unfortunately, forever is now, here....or soon to b</span></span></span><span style="color: #3d3d3d; font-size: 12pt; margin: 0px;">e here.
So, it might be a good time to look around and see how good things are now
because the future won't be pretty.</span></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; margin: 0px;"></span></div>
<div style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: transparent; border-bottom-color: rgb(61, 61, 61); border-bottom-style: none; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-image-outset: 0; border-image-repeat: stretch; border-image-slice: 100%; border-image-source: none; border-image-width: 1; border-left-color: rgb(61, 61, 61); border-left-style: none; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-color: rgb(61, 61, 61); border-right-style: none; border-right-width: 0px; border-top-color: rgb(61, 61, 61); border-top-style: none; border-top-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; color: #3d3d3d; font-family: &quot; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 13px; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 16.9px; margin-bottom: 9.75px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 3.25px; orphans: 2; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: transparent; border-bottom-color: rgb(61, 61, 61); border-bottom-style: none; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-image-outset: 0; border-image-repeat: stretch; border-image-slice: 100%; border-image-source: none; border-image-width: 1; border-left-color: rgb(61, 61, 61); border-left-style: none; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-color: rgb(61, 61, 61); border-right-style: none; border-right-width: 0px; border-top-color: rgb(61, 61, 61); border-top-style: none; border-top-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; color: #3d3d3d; font-family: &quot; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 13px; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 16.9px; margin-bottom: 9.75px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 3.25px; orphans: 2; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-27/coming-market-crash-will-set-biggest-gold-panic-buying-history</div>
<b><i><u><br /></u></i></b>
Stevein7http://www.blogger.com/profile/05247112348960054367noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585900324914484720.post-22896412743179207962018-01-28T09:43:00.002-08:002018-01-28T09:46:29.093-08:00Last meeting of MDF<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEifRA5cVZsSo2zJRDGiqEuxfAy8113ygfFbsuOv2gOeldBLKOmYQgoE8GIy4hvaWW2RQJhVliKmtahzRXZ_RQcLS0fUO3JTeyRPCvrf4OV7oPvz_xMTjL3_Geyc3F3UoOqHjXDNJBvlc72Q/s1600/Cryptocurrency-exchanges.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="501" data-original-width="700" height="142" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEifRA5cVZsSo2zJRDGiqEuxfAy8113ygfFbsuOv2gOeldBLKOmYQgoE8GIy4hvaWW2RQJhVliKmtahzRXZ_RQcLS0fUO3JTeyRPCvrf4OV7oPvz_xMTjL3_Geyc3F3UoOqHjXDNJBvlc72Q/s200/Cryptocurrency-exchanges.jpg" width="200" /></a><span style="font-family: "trebuchet ms" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">The last Midlands Discussion Forum took place on Saturday 27th January in Sheffield on the subject: ''Crypto-currencies, high-tech cure all or pseudo solution to capitalism's quagmire''.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "trebuchet ms" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><br />
For those who missed the meeting but would like to know more about the subject, an analysis of Bitcoin is a good place to start is <a href="http://libcom.org/library/bitcoin-finally-fair-money">HERE</a>
but digital 'currencies' have proliferated since then and our
discussion looked more widely at the relationship between
this and the 'real' economy of a crisis ridden capitalism. </span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "trebuchet ms" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">More info on crypto-currencies <a href="http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2010s/2017/no-1360-december-2017/pathfinders-rattle-blockchains" target="_blank">HERE</a> and <a href="http://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2018-01-21/bitcoin-make-way-for-cryptomoney" target="_blank">HERE</a></span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "trebuchet ms" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">We hope to have a report on the meeting here soon.</span></span>Midlands Discussion Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16331944341618173169noreply@blogger.com0